Subject: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: 1996/01/22
Message-ID: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl>
Sender: replay@utopia.hacktic.nl
Xcomm: Report misuse of this automated service to <postmaster@REPLAY.COM>
Organization: RePLaY aND CoMPaNY UnLimited
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
Just thought you'd all like to see this review of Marathon 2 in the latest
issue of Macworld (March 1996). Now, normally I'd consider 4 stars out of
5 (and 8.5 out of 10) a good rating for any game, but the reasons given as
"cons" for it not getting 5 stars in this review is ridiculous!
Personally, I feel that no one with biases against violence in games
should be rating them. I think we should all express our displeasure with
Mr. Fred DeLisio and his prejudiced game review of Marathon 2. Write
E-mail to:
letters@macworld.com
Here is the review, read it for yourself:
---Begin Review---
Marathon 2
The Carnage Continues
Bungie software has done it again. If you liked the original Marathon, then
you'll love Marathon 2: Durandal. Marathon 2's enemies are nastier, the play is
faster-paced, and there are plenty of new surprises.
Unlike in the original game, you're no longer aboard the Starship Marathon. It's
now 17 years later, and you've been kidnapped by Durandal--the rogue personality
who was the brains behind the defense of the original colony ship--and whisked
away to a planet orbiting a star 97 light-years from the center of the
Milky Way.
You obey Durandal's bidding through his remote guidance; he's taken over video
displays on the planet and communicates with you periodically through them.
As in the original Marathon, the ultimate goal of the new version is to rid the
planet of every mutant creature that rears its ugly head. The images are even
more graphic and gore-filled than those in the original Marathon, and the
movement is fluid and quick. I found myself relying solely on reflex and the
tools at hand (the motion detector is especially invaluable) to get me through
some tight spots--especially when green sewer-dwelling monsters started to close
in. New mutant drones can be extremely hazardous to your health if you're not
armed to the teeth before confronting them.
One of the best new network features is the addition of real-time audio. A
simple
dialog-box option lets you talk to the other networked players through the
microphone on your Mac and lead your team through the rough spots. If
you've ever
played a network game without this feature, you know how frustrating it is to
have to guess what your teammates are doing.
There are a number of different options for networked play, many of them
grotesque variants on schoolyard games like tag or king of the hill. In addition
to the straightforward Team and Every Man for Himself, other scenarios include
Kill the Guy with the Ball--the object is to maintain possession of a gruesome
skull for the longest time. My favorite network option is the Cooperative
scheme,
where players assist one another to complete each level. I was impressed to find
you must select Cooperative mode in order to play the entire plot. Although you
can still accidentally kill other players in this mode, it's not designed that
way. If you want to actively kill one another, you're confined to single-level
arenas.
The Last Word
Marathon 2: Durandal is a well-crafted action-adventure game, but it's not for
the squeamish or those disturbed by violence. The game's increased network
capabilities and fluid, engaging play make for a compelling adventure.
________
Rating: Four Stars (out of Five) /8.5
PROS: Fast-paced adventure; lots of new foes and faces; enhanced network support
for multiple players.
CONS: Ultraviolent; promotes "every man for himself" ideals in some
multiple-player options.
COMPANY: Bungie Software Products (312/563-6200, info@bungie.com).
LIST PRICE: $79.--Fred DeLisio
March 1996
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: tarl@access5.digex.net (Tarl Roger Kudrick)
Date: 1996/01/23
Message-ID: <4e314c$3jq@news4.digex.net>
References: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl>
Followup-To: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
Anonymous (nobody@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
[this is a quote from MacWorld]
: The Last Word
:
: Marathon 2: Durandal is a well-crafted action-adventure game, but it's not for
: the squeamish or those disturbed by violence. The game's increased network
: capabilities and fluid, engaging play make for a compelling adventure.
Well...that's exactly what it is. It's NOT for the squeamish or
those disturbed by violence. Let's not forget that a significant minority
of the computer world out there might not like any of these games just
for this very reason.
: CONS: Ultraviolent; promotes "every man for himself" ideals in some
: multiple-player options.
But the "every man for himself" ethic is ridiculous. Come on.
This is a game. Does anyone out there really base their moral systems on
how they play computer games?
: LIST PRICE: $79.--Fred DeLisio
Finally, where do they get these outrageous price quotes? Street
price is $40-45, at least through mail order. I've seen it in Egghead
Software for $49. But $79? I suppose that's good to know if one ever
shows up on "The Price is Right" (And the actual retail price of
"Marathon 2: Durandal" is...)
--Tarl Roger Kudrick
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|tarl@access.digex.net
"You get what you settle for." |
Thelma, in "Thelma and Louise" |"He is an individual, and they're always
|trying." A No. 2 in "The Prisoner"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: sb332@sover.net (Steve & Beth)
Date: 1996/01/23
Message-ID: <sb332-2301962133120001@pm0a22.mid.sover.net>
References: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl>
Organization: SoVerNet
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
In article <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl>, nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
> Just thought you'd all like to see this review of Marathon 2 in the latest
> issue of Macworld (March 1996). Now, normally I'd consider 4 stars out of
> 5 (and 8.5 out of 10) a good rating for any game, but the reasons given as
> "cons" for it not getting 5 stars in this review is ridiculous!
> Personally, I feel that no one with biases against violence in games
> should be rating them. I think we should all express our displeasure with
> Mr. Fred DeLisio and his prejudiced game review of Marathon 2. Write
> E-mail to:
>
> letters@macworld.com
I saw the reveiw as well. I was a little disappointed about the four star
rating too. MacUser and Mac Home Journal gave Dark Forces 4.5 (Mice for
MacUser and apples for Mac Home Journal) and Macworld only gave Marathon
4 stars. I shook my head that Marathon 2 got (compared to DF) a lower
rating when it is clear that Marathon is a superior game. Hold on now, I
love DF and I find it extremely enjoyable and exciting to play, but
Marathon is harder than DF and it beats DF slightly in graphics as well.
Although, I like The DF weapons better than Marathons.
I am just so confused about Macworld not giving it 5 stars due to it's
violent nature. Man, I know what is real and what is fantasy. It's like
they have to say that because they don't want to create an uproar or
something.
And don't worry, I have already written to Macworld about my displeasure.
Steve M
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: regojpb@ucl.ac.uk (Mr John Philip Bingham)
Date: 1996/01/24
Message-ID: <1996Jan24.105224.74586@ucl.ac.uk>
References: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl> <sb332-2301962133120001@pm0a22.mid.sover.net>
Organization: University College London
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
sb332@sover.net (Steve & Beth) writes:
>In article <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl>, nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>> Just thought you'd all like to see this review of Marathon 2 in the latest
>> issue of Macworld (March 1996). Now, normally I'd consider 4 stars out of
>> 5 (and 8.5 out of 10) a good rating for any game, but the reasons given as
>> "cons" for it not getting 5 stars in this review is ridiculous!
>> Personally, I feel that no one with biases against violence in games
>> should be rating them. I think we should all express our displeasure with
>> Mr. Fred DeLisio and his prejudiced game review of Marathon 2. Write
>> E-mail to:
>>
>> letters@macworld.com
>I saw the reveiw as well. I was a little disappointed about the four star
>rating too. MacUser and Mac Home Journal gave Dark Forces 4.5 (Mice for
>MacUser and apples for Mac Home Journal) and Macworld only gave Marathon
>4 stars. I shook my head that Marathon 2 got (compared to DF) a lower
>rating when it is clear that Marathon is a superior game. Hold on now, I
>love DF and I find it extremely enjoyable and exciting to play, but
>Marathon is harder than DF and it beats DF slightly in graphics as well.
>Although, I like The DF weapons better than Marathons.
>I am just so confused about Macworld not giving it 5 stars due to it's
>violent nature. Man, I know what is real and what is fantasy. It's like
>they have to say that because they don't want to create an uproar or
>something.
>And don't worry, I have already written to Macworld about my displeasure.
>Steve M
I on the other hand cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality so later
today I'm going to fold into the Macworld office and have me some fun with a
Spanker!
ha ha ha
John........
--
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all it's pupils."
Hector Berlioz (1803-1869). French composer.
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: deckard@halcyon.com (Brett Norris)
Date: 1996/01/24
Message-ID: <deckard-2401961937510001@blv-pm11-ip24.halcyon.com>
References: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl> <rellio-2401961628250001@f-12.das.mcgill.ca>
Organization: Norris Computer Consulting
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
In article <rellio-2401961628250001@f-12.das.mcgill.ca>,
rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott) wrote:
> In article <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl>, nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > Rating: Four Stars (out of Five) /8.5
> >
> > PROS: Fast-paced adventure; lots of new foes and faces; enhanced network
> support
> > for multiple players.
> > CONS: Ultraviolent; promotes "every man for himself" ideals in some
> > multiple-player options.
> >
> > COMPANY: Bungie Software Products (312/563-6200, info@bungie.com).
> > LIST PRICE: $79.--Fred DeLisio
> >
> > March 1996
>
> Ultraviolence is a CON? What planet is Mr. DeLisio from?!?
Agreed. Be sure to express your displeasure with this type of
journalism. Biases against violence have no place in game reviews,
especially given that much more violent and bloody games like Doom exist
(another good game).
Write to:
letters@macworld.com
--
deckard@halcyon.com <-- preferred
AOL: BrettN
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: jared.bingham@m.cc.utah.edu (Jared Bingham)
Date: 1996/01/24
Message-ID: <jared.bingham-2401961719150001@ctsasync77.cc.utah.edu>
References: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl> <sb332-2301962133120001@pm0a22.mid.sover.net> <1996Jan24.105224.74586@ucl.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Utah School of Medicine
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
> >> Just thought you'd all like to see this review of Marathon 2 in the latest
> >> issue of Macworld (March 1996). Now, normally I'd consider 4 stars out of
> >> 5 (and 8.5 out of 10) a good rating for any game, but the reasons given as
> >> "cons" for it not getting 5 stars in this review is ridiculous!
4 stars seems inconsistent, considering that in the same issue, Macworld
named Marathon Game of the Year for 1995 and mentioned that Marathon 2
continues the tradition.
--
Jared Bingham
jared.bingham@m.cc.utah.edu
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: Michael DeGusta <mikeyd@leland.stanford.edu>
Date: 1996/01/25
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960125114950.23059A-100000@elaine42.Stanford.EDU>
References: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl> <sb332-2301962133120001@pm0a22.mid.sover.net> <1996Jan24.105224.74586@ucl.ac.uk> <jared.bingham-2401961719150001@ctsasync77.cc.utah.edu> <sb332-2501961213400001@pm0a22.mid.sover.net>
X-Sender: mikeyd@elaine42.Stanford.EDU
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Organization: Stanford University
Mime-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Steve & Beth wrote:
> That's true. I think Macworld was just being stingy because of "it's
> violent nature".
> [many other comments like above omitted]
This is obviously the case. The immense fallacy in this, however, isn't
that MacWorld should 'know' that "violence rocks", but it is a basic
tenet of reviewing anything that you don't pan something for it's genre.
Saying a first-person action shoot-'em-up "promotes every man for him
self ideals" and has violence is like critricizing Myst for it's lack of
exciting arcade action or "Gandhi" for not being a laugh-a-minute film.
Just another example of the frequently dubious writing quality in
computer magazines, imho.
MD
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: russotto@wanda.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto)
Date: 1996/01/25
Message-ID: <4e8ccp$223@wanda.pond.com>
References: <sb332-2301962133120001@pm0a22.mid.sover.net> <1996Jan24.105224.74586@ucl.ac.uk> <jared.bingham-2401961719150001@ctsasync77.cc.utah.edu>
Organization: Picker International, Inc.
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
In article <jared.bingham-2401961719150001@ctsasync77.cc.utah.edu> jared.bingham@m.cc.utah.edu (Jared Bingham) writes:
}> >> Just thought you'd all like to see this review of Marathon 2 in the latest
}> >> issue of Macworld (March 1996). Now, normally I'd consider 4 stars out of
}> >> 5 (and 8.5 out of 10) a good rating for any game, but the reasons given as
}> >> "cons" for it not getting 5 stars in this review is ridiculous!
}
}4 stars seems inconsistent, considering that in the same issue, Macworld
}named Marathon Game of the Year for 1995 and mentioned that Marathon 2
}continues the tradition.
They let some anti-violence weenie review it. That's why it didn't
get 5 stars. Sort of like getting someone who hates chess to review
Sargon (anyone remember that?)....
--
Matthew T. Russotto russotto@pond.com russotto@his.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."
Subject: Re: Dumbass in Macworld gives Marathon 2 only four stars!
From: thomas.ytterberg@mailbox.swipnet.se (Thomas Ytterberg)
Date: 1996/01/25
Message-ID: <thomas.ytterberg-2501962146440001@dialup101-028.swipnet.se>
References: <4duidq$ear@utopia.hacktic.nl> <rellio-2401961628250001@f-12.das.mcgill.ca> <petrichDLq7zJ.7xB@netcom.com>
Organization: -
Newsgroups: alt.games.marathon,comp.sys.mac.games.action
In article <petrichDLq7zJ.7xB@netcom.com>, petrich@netcom.com (Loren
Petrich) wrote:
> In article <rellio-2401961628250001@f-12.das.mcgill.ca>,
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>
> [a reviewer called it a negative feature]
> > Ultraviolence is a CON? What planet is Mr. DeLisio from?!?
>
> Some people just don't like violence. And they may not appreciate
> the game's (multicolored) blood and guts.
Hmm, yes... but claim it as drawback for Marathon is like downgrading
Klondike, Mombasa and the other card games because they lacks action...
I mean, it is supposed to be violent. It's made with violence as the main
ingridient. Just because some people can't stand strategy games and the
fact that they are complex and requires thinking ahead, you don't list it
as an disadvantage...
Now, personally I don't think that M2 deserves anymore than 4 stars...
Basically it's a only remake of M1, some added features, beefed up effects
and graphics. Marathon 2 lacks the originality, the 'it' that made M1 such
a great game.
After I played through M2, neraly 2 months ago, I immediately started to
play again on M1, my emotions full with nostalgia as I refilled my oxygen
tank on
'G4 Sunbathing' (one of the best levels, IMHO...)
No, M2 simply isn't as fascinating as its predecessor. Some levels are
downright boring (the pfhor levels). Others have the mysticism and
intriguing feeling that made me love M1 (Kill your Television).
I do still think that M2 is a great game. Just not as great as M1.
What I'm waiting for is that the editors to become available and more stable.
Imagine the original M1 levels, with the original graphic, aliens and plot
but with new features as swimming, ambient sounds, shotgun etc...
I'd be there to help! :-)
//Thomas Ytterberg http://w3.adb.gu.se/~g95outer
===============================================================
Problems with Grenade Jumping in Marathon? Check out the FAQ at:
http://w3.adb.gu.se/~g95outer/