As fate would have it I've lost the original Operation Tantalus feedback page... *gasp* *horror* All gone I'm afraid unless David or Jim still have a copy. But since they appear to have folded out of the Marathon Universe we may never know.

Anyway here are a number of usenet posts on the subject of Operation Tantalus. Unlike the usual feedback pages they give you both the positive AND negative things about the game. Operation Tantalus Author:Larry Ricker <ricker@cheme.washington.edu> Date:1996/01/23 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/23 Message-ID:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 organization:University of Washington x-mailer: Mozilla 2.0b4 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Forgive me if I've spelled the name of this game incorrectly. For those of you who don't know, it's a freeware add-on to Marathon 1 that provides, in effect, a whole new game. I've found it very challenging -- certainly more difficult than Marathon 1 and Devil in a Blue Dress (a similar add-on). The main difference is the "nonlinearity". Instead of progressing from one "level" to the next, you have to figure out where to go. You usually have 3 or more choices. This really adds to the interest level, but it can also be frustrating. The main problem is that the game doesn't always acknowledge that you've been somewhere and done something. Thus, you can repeat a level several times, never sure that you accomplished what you were supposed to do there. The levels can be rather long, which adds to the frustration. For example, on multiple occasions I've been instructed to go to GIDEON which, as I understand it, is the computer center. Each time I go the instructions are the same: check on the status of the communication link. Each time it's a little different -- some rooms are accessible and others aren't. Each time I eventually wipe out most of the population and reach the control center, where I'm told I did a good job. Then I go somewhere else. Then when I do my thing there, I may end up at a terminal that sends me back to GIDEON (sometimes there are other choices, but I've gotten into positions where I only had one choice -- or at least it seemed that way). Then I have to ask myself: should I go back, or should I see if I can figure out a way to go somewhere else... There are clues, and I feel that I'm making progress, but it's slooooow progress. I wonder if I'm just not getting the hang of it, or if others are finding it equally difficult. I congratulate the authors on the excitement level of many scenarios, especially the starting level, MOONMAN, and CASTLE..., where you're either teamed with or fighting against a being of similar abilities. Larry Re: Operation Tantalus Author:Alex Chapman <nabob@rice.edu> Date:1996/01/24 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/24 Message-ID:<nabob-2401961432290001@joachim.baker.rice.edu> organization:Rice University references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> In article <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu>, Larry Ricker <ricker@cheme.washington.edu> wrote: > There are clues, and I feel that I'm making progress, but it's > slooooow progress. I wonder if I'm just not getting the hang of it, > or if others are finding it equally difficult. I found it tough, but actually I found a path that got me through in fairly few levels (like five or so) but that was after finding a couple of obscure/hard to reach terminals and taking all the clues and always knowing where I was supposed to go. I think it was the shortest possible path (no rampancy testing arena, praise the lord) but there was some out-and-out NASTINESS in that path. Tryptich.. i still have the scars... and unlike Marathon, it had one real climax. ouch. I like to call that proper application of monsters and architecture, and also i'd say it's real classy. Nice little cavey area with a lift out back, nice everything. ohh, just in case anybody here is reading this thread and hasn't played Tantalus, GET IT! If you have an 8 meg powermac with RD the sounds will occasionally glitch it (too many to fit in normal memory, have to wait for sound to load), but memory's real cheap right now, and you can always just trim out the alternate sounds with resedit (guys? wanna post a leaner sound patch?). This is the best patch I've seen (sorry groupmap guys, probably didn't give DIABD much of a chance) for Marathon, and it rivals original Marathon in most categories--better puzzles, better replay, better challenge, better use of monsters (juggers and cyborgs especially, owie)--and is inferior only in seamlessness of graphics and sound, terminals, lighting, and architecture, but these guys don't have the resources to do EVERYthing, and they're not getting rich on it. > I congratulate the authors on the excitement level of many > scenarios, especially the starting level, MOONMAN, and CASTLE..., > where you're either teamed with or fighting against a being of > similar abilities. I'll have to check out Moonman. Or is that the rampancy testing arena (shudder)? AFTER all that ammo goes into offline cyborgs... sigh. And a modified castle would make an absolutely KICKASS net map... imagine in M2 with a swimmable moat and underwater access and maybe a little simpler castle interior. Re: Operation Tantalus Author: james harvey brewster <brew@unm.edu> Date:1996/01/25 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/25 Message-ID:<4e96f9$79bi@pegasus.unm.edu> organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> >> There are clues, and I feel that I'm making progress, but it's >> slooooow progress. I wonder if I'm just not getting the hang of it, >> or if others are finding it equally difficult. Yes, OT is not a 'just show me where they are' straight forward shoot 'em up type map. It includes an adventure quality and with all of the advantages and disadvantages associated with an adventure type game. The Marathon player who just plays in order to clear each level one by one may get a little frustrated. We did try hard to add as much randomness as possible so that the levels you return to would be a little different each time. Unfortunately, Marathon is not set up to 'remember' where you've been and you may get the deja vu feeling. Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of carnage and fun to keep you busy, as well as a kick-butt story to follow. > I found it tough, but actually I found a path that got me through in > fairly few levels (like five or so) but that was after finding a couple of > obscure/hard to reach terminals and taking all the clues and always > knowing where I was supposed to go. I think it was the shortest possible > path (no rampancy testing arena, praise the lord) but there was some > out-and-out NASTINESS in that path. In order to properly win, you must go through six levels from start to finish. You may ask, what do you mean by 'properly win'? You must kill Seth in order to win, and yes, you can get to him but it depends on _how_ you do it. This is the cool thing about OT, the possibility of previous actions in previous levels effecting the outcome of the game. It is possible to get to the end in only five levels, but you will not be able to kill Seth. There are no essential secrets that are undocumented (via terminals), but you may have to go through several levels to find them all. > ohh, just in case anybody here is reading this thread and hasn't played > Tantalus, GET IT! If you have an 8 meg powermac with RD the sounds will > occasionally glitch it (too many to fit in normal memory, have to wait for > sound to load), but memory's real cheap right now, and you can always just > trim out the alternate sounds with resedit (guys? wanna post a leaner > sound patch?). This problem is probably not due to the number of sounds. It may be due to the size of the sounds, but if you cut down the number of sound channels and sampling rate you may get better performance. Many of the levels in Operation Tantalus are maxed out when it comes to size (number of polys), number of monsters and items, and scenery object, making them RAM intensive. You should be able to run it with 6000K-6500K with no music and at 256 colors. We actually took a lot of stuff out because of memory problems :( > This is the best patch I've seen (sorry groupmap guys, > probably didn't give DIABD much of a chance) for Marathon, and it rivals > original Marathon in most categories--better puzzles, better replay, > better challenge, better use of monsters (juggers and cyborgs especially, > owie)--and is inferior only in seamlessness of graphics and sound, > terminals, lighting, and architecture, but these guys don't have the > resources to do EVERYthing, and they're not getting rich on it. That's for sure! Plus, there are only three of us. (and all of the people who created all of the editing tools!) >> I congratulate the authors on the excitement level of many >> scenarios, especially the starting level, MOONMAN, and CASTLE..., >> where you're either teamed with or fighting against a being of >> similar abilities. A while ago there was some talk about boss characters. I think the consensus was that they were created to make up for a map that was lacking. I thought that perhaps with Marathon, I could create boss characters that were smart, fast, and strong, rather than stupid, slow, and strong. When I first was testing the 'Cyborg Plant' level I was overwhelming happy with the way the cyborgs at the end actually _hunted_ you. That was accomplished by making the cyborg's physics similar to yours and clever map making (trademark secret :)) I wanted to give the solo-player who has never played Marathon networked an idea of what it feels like to play against monsters that act more like a human. > I'll have to check out Moonman. Or is that the rampancy testing arena > (shudder)? AFTER all that ammo goes into offline cyborgs... sigh. And a > modified castle would make an absolutely KICKASS net map... imagine in M2 > with a swimmable moat and underwater access and maybe a little simpler > castle interior. Right now I'm waiting for a terminal editor to be released so that I can port one of my earlier maps Athens Outpost. It will include new things of course. I don't write network maps because I don't have that much experience at network play :( so I don't really feel qualified. Jim Brewster --------------------------------------------------------------------------- For more info on Operation Tantalus, check out http://www.unm.edu/~brew/seth.html The Three We don't make maps... We make experiences --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Operation Tantalus Author:BRENDAN BERVER <bberver@nmsu.edu> Date:1996/01/25 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/25 Message-ID:<4e8so9$hd3@bubba.NMSU.Edu> organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> Alex Chapman (nabob@rice.edu) wrote: : ohh, just in case anybody here is reading this thread and hasn't played : Tantalus, GET IT! If you have an 8 meg powermac with RD the sounds will I'd love to! Where can I find it? ________________________________________________________________ Brendan K. Berver | "She climbed backwards out her window .\ bberver@nmsu.edu | into outside over there." \/ Re: Operation Tantalus Author: james harvey brewster <brew@unm.edu> Date:1996/01/26 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/26 Message-ID:<4eb52o$3nje@musca.unm.edu> organization:University of New Mexico, Albuquerque references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e8so9$hd3@bubba.NMSU.Edu> In article <4e8so9$hd3@bubba.NMSU.Edu>, BRENDAN BERVER <bberver@nmsu.edu> wrote: >Alex Chapman (nabob@rice.edu) wrote: > >> ohh, just in case anybody here is reading this thread and hasn't played >> Tantalus, GET IT! If you have an 8 meg powermac with RD the sounds will > > I'd love to! Where can I find it? You can download either a one level preview (1.4MB) or the full version (3.8MB) from the following web site, http://www.unm.edu/~brew/seth.html or at this URL (full version) ftp://ftp.amug.org/incoming/M1_Op_Tantalus_v10.hqx Further info about Operation Tantalus is also available at the above web site. Jim Brewster Re: Operation Tantalus Author:david edward dericotte <grok@unm.edu> Date:1996/01/25 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/25 Message-ID:<4e9ar3$3h8c@argo.unm.edu> organization:University of New Mexico, Albuquerque references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> > Tryptich.. i still have the scars... So do I. That was my first map (Jim was already quite an experienced map maker by the time I joined on) and it took me a several weeks to learn most of the nuances involved in map making. Fortunately, Jim is a patient teacher. I am glad to hear that someone felt Tryptich was challenging and fun; it makes all of those nights spent in front of the computer until 5AM more worthwhile. > and unlike Marathon, it had one real climax. ouch. I like to call that > proper application of monsters and architecture, and also i'd say it's > real classy. Nice little cavey area with a lift out back, nice > everything. Uh, which "little cavey area with a lift out back" do you mean? Which level? > ohh, just in case anybody here is reading this thread and hasn't played > Tantalus, GET IT! You can download a copy at http://www.unm.edu/~brew/seth.html and check out the splash at http://www.unm.edu/~brew/seth2.html And once you download it, we have created a web site that provides you with hints and other interesting tidbits concerning Operation Tantalus at http://www.unm.edu/~grok/maranet.html > and it rivals original Marathon in most categories--better puzzles, > better replay, better challenge, better use of monsters (juggers and > cyborgs especially, owie)--and is inferior only in seamlessness of > graphics and sound, terminals, lighting, and architecture, but these guys > don't have the resources to do EVERYthing, Sorry, but chemical engineering graduate students only have so much free time... =) > and they're not getting rich on it. Yeah, but the chicks dig us! > I'll have to check out Moonman. Or is that the rampancy testing arena > (shudder). Yes, it is. Try the second trigger on the Tozt, you will be surprised and delighted. (Has ANYONE found this little addition yet?) > AFTER all that ammo goes into offline cyborgs... sigh. Hmmmm, try a bigger gun. =) > A modified castle would make an absolutely KICKASS net map... imagine in M2 > with a swimmable moat and underwater access and maybe a little simpler > castle interior. Oh, and the experience isn't over when you finish. We did our best to include little tidbits (sounds, quotes, etc) from our favorite science fiction works. The person who can spot the most references will be honored by us in our next map (and it WON'T be some lame cameo, either!!!) and your name (hopefully) will be burned into CD's that will be distributed ALL OVER THE WORLD! You can see the current List of Fame at: http://www.unm.edu/~grok/mappage/OTmarmov.html Just out of curiosity, how many people have actually killed Seth? You know you've won if you get "THE PLANS"! No, really, I'm not kidding. David Dericotte grok@unm.edu Re: Operation Tantalus Author:Henri Asseily <asseil54@wharton.upenn.edu> Date: 1996/01/29 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/29 Message-ID:<asseil54-2901961055410001@ts7-46.upenn.edu> organization:The Wharton School, U. of Pennsylvania references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9ar3$3h8c@argo.unm.edu> >Oh, and the experience isn't over when you finish. We did our best >to include little tidbits (sounds, quotes, etc) from our favorite >science fiction works. The person who can spot the most references >will be honored by us in our next map (and it WON'T be some lame cameo, >either!!!) and your name (hopefully) will be burned into CD's that will >be distributed ALL OVER THE WORLD! You can see the current List of Fame at: > > http://www.unm.edu/~grok/mappage/OTmarmov.html > >Just out of curiosity, how many people have actually killed Seth? >You know you've won if you get "THE PLANS"! No, really, I'm not kidding. Oh, and one more think following my earlier post: "get the Plans": I wonder where you got that from. The Indy Jones movies? The original Apple II Castle Wolfenstein? +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Henri Asseily Kalessin --=(UDIC)=-- asseily@wharton.upenn.edu Alternatively: rik@foxbat.cs.com http://equity.wharton.upenn.edu/~asseil54/ Baby pictures and jokes +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Re: Operation Tantalus Author:Henri Asseily <asseil54@wharton.upenn.edu> Date:1996/01/29 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/29 Message-ID:<asseil54-2901961051380001@ts7-46.upenn.edu> organization:The Wharton School, U. of Pennsylvania references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9ar3$3h8c@argo.unm.edu> > >Oh, and the experience isn't over when you finish. We did our best >to include little tidbits (sounds, quotes, etc) from our favorite >science fiction works. The person who can spot the most references >will be honored by us in our next map (and it WON'T be some lame cameo, >either!!!) and your name (hopefully) will be burned into CD's that will >be distributed ALL OVER THE WORLD! You can see the current List of Fame at: > > http://www.unm.edu/~grok/mappage/OTmarmov.html > >Just out of curiosity, how many people have actually killed Seth? >You know you've won if you get "THE PLANS"! No, really, I'm not kidding. > Well, I played OT and *think* I've won it big time. Basically (and not in order), I killed the dude (burned him to death, niarkniarkniark), exploded the satellite dish, terminated the jugs, killed gazillions of cyborgs in the rampancy testing arena (became quite good at it, actually: run to the stairs, pick up ammo, grap the invincibility, and go hunting), blasted the HFET down the pipe, and finally found the terminal saying something like "Wow, you're great, e-mail us if you find this". Now do I get to be in the hall of fame? ;-) (Even though I did ask just once for help from you guys) +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Henri Asseily Kalessin --=(UDIC)=-- asseily@wharton.upenn.edu Alternatively: rik@foxbat.cs.com http://equity.wharton.upenn.edu/~asseil54/ Baby pictures and jokes +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Re: Operation Tantalus Author: james harvey brewster <brew@unm.edu> Date:1996/01/30 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/30 Message-ID:<4eltum$30l3@enzu.unm.edu> organization:University of New Mexico, Albuquerque references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9ar3$3h8c@argo.unm.edu> In article <asseil54-2901961051380001@ts7-46.upenn.edu>, Henri Asseily <asseil54@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote: >>Just out of curiosity, how many people have actually killed Seth? >>You know you've won if you get "THE PLANS"! No, really, I'm not kidding. >> > >Well, I played OT and *think* I've won it big time. Basically (and not in >order), I killed the dude (burned him to death, niarkniarkniark), exploded >the satellite dish, terminated the jugs, killed gazillions of cyborgs in >the rampancy testing arena (became quite good at it, actually: run to the >stairs, pick up ammo, grap the invincibility, and go hunting), blasted the >HFET down the pipe, and finally found the terminal saying something like >"Wow, you're great, e-mail us if you find this". Well you've won alright, but, when you burned Seth you burned up 'The Plans' that were in his pocket. I know that it is probably more gratifying to light him up, but if you want to win completely... Just remember, in Operation Tantalus, it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play =) >Now do I get to be in the hall of fame? ;-) Actually, the hall of fame is for the recognition of references to other things, such as, movies, TV shows, games, etc. After you've learned how to kill gazillion cyborgs, other badies just seem like wimps in comparison =) Jim Brewster Re: Operation Tantalus Author: Dave Robertson <saga@piglet.otago.ac.nz> Date:1996/01/26 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/26 Message-ID: <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> organization: Computer Graphics Lab, University of Otago references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> Alex Chapman (nabob@rice.edu) wrote: > I found it tough, but actually I found a path that got me through in > fairly few levels (like five or so) but that was after finding a couple of > obscure/hard to reach terminals and taking all the clues and always > knowing where I was supposed to go. I played through OT but i think I had to go through almost every level. It was very difficult even on Normal, but I was annoyed that I seemed to get stuck in a plot loop, where I'd have to keep going through the same levels over and over again and the aliens would reappear each time. Has anyone else found this - or is it a feature? Maybe I'll have to go and try a different plot sequence.... Anyway, congratulations to the developers. Keep up the good work. -Dave. Re: Operation Tantalus Author: Larry Ricker <ricker@cheme.washington.edu> Date:1996/01/26 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/26 Message-ID:<3108D44E.424A@cheme.washington.edu> content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 organization: University of Washington references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> x-mailer: Mozilla 2.0b4 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Dave Robertson wrote: > I played through OT but i think I had to go through almost every level. > It was very difficult even on Normal, but I was annoyed that I seemed > to get stuck in a plot loop, where I'd have to keep going through the > same levels over and over again and the aliens would reappear each time. > > Has anyone else found this - or is it a feature? Such "plot loops" have been my experience so far, and were the motivation for my original post. Fortunately, it's exciting enough to keep me going... I guess I'll have to re-think my strategy. Larry Re: Operation Tantalus Author: james harvey brewster <brew@unm.edu> Date:1996/01/27 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/27 Message-ID: <4edu87$4ak8@auriga.unm.edu> organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> In article <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz>, Dave Robertson <saga@piglet.otago.ac.nz> wrote: >I played through OT but i think I had to go through almost every level. >It was very difficult even on Normal, but I was annoyed that I seemed >to get stuck in a plot loop, where I'd have to keep going through the >same levels over and over again and the aliens would reappear each time. > >Has anyone else found this - or is it a feature? Well, it's kind of a feature. The plot loop is a result of years of brain-washing by these types of games (Doom, M1, etc) forcing you along a linear path. The non-linearity in OT is IMHO very complex. I designed it so that if someone tried to play it in a linear fashion, this loop would suck them in. The way it is accomplished is to include an easy, natural, linear way out of a level and also include a few not-so-easy, not-so-natural ways out as well. I learned my lessen with USS Raider about the pitfalls of having a purely essential secret. Therefore, there are no 'un-documented' (via terms) secrets which are essential to completing the game. One other comment that may help is that even if you think you've been to a certain level before, things could be radically different, such as the messages displayed on previously read terminals. As for the monsters coming 'back alive'. Well Dr. Seth can teleport in new monsters at his leasure :). Actually M1 is not set up to 'really' remember what you've done on previous levels, so we had to be clever about the application of random monsters. >Maybe I'll have to go and try a different plot sequence.... This is exactly what you need to do if you feel caught in a loop. Try something different, get brave when it comes to the cyborgs (they won't hurt you... :)), and finally pay close attention to all terminals (write things down if you have to) >Anyway, congratulations to the developers. Keep up the good work. Thank you, from all three of us. Jim Brewster Re: Operation Tantalus Author: C.L. Sturm <clsturm@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: 1996/01/29 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/29 Message-ID:<clsturm-2801962136470001@ts1-port-31.acs.ucalgary.ca> organization:The University of Calgary references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz><4edu87$4ak8@auriga.unm.edu> I've been playing OT a bit. I've already had to cheat. On the level, Cyborg, I couldn't leave the level until all of the cyborgs were dead. That includes all of them in the two rooms, plus the two extras. There was most certainly not enough ammo to kill all of the cyborgs. Not even close. I personally don't want to spend half an hour holding down the space-bar key punching them to death. I'm on the next level after it, and I can't really find the point of the level. I've searched just about everywhere, and I'm not sure what is left. The creators of this game sure like to use hidden doorways. I personally don't like running along walls trying to see if doors are around that aren't shown. I don't know how many buildings you've been in where doors are not obvious. Oh well, I figure it's going in the trash pretty soon. -- clsturm@acs.ucalgary.ca Re: Operation Tantalus Author: Larry Ricker <ricker@cheme.washington.edu> Date:1996/01/29 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/29 Message-ID:<310CC108.24AE@cheme.washington.edu> content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 organization:University of Washington references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz><4edu87$4ak8@auriga.unm.edu> x-mailer: Mozilla 2.0b4 (Macintosh; I; 68K) C.L. Sturm wrote: > > I've been playing OT a bit. I've already had to cheat. On the level, > Cyborg, I couldn't leave the level until all of the cyborgs were dead. > That includes all of them in the two rooms, plus the two extras. > > There was most certainly not enough ammo to kill all of the cyborgs. > > Not even close. I personally don't want to spend half an hour holding > down the space-bar key punching them to death. I didn't have any trouble killing them all, but it helped to have the rocket launcher... (hidden in the first level). That way I could finish off quite a few of them simultaneously. > The creators of this game sure like to use hidden doorways. I > personally don't like running along walls trying to see if doors > are around that aren't shown. I don't know how many buildings > you've been in where doors are not obvious. > I agree that the authors have gone overboard in this respect. On the other hand, a change in wall texture or other clue often gives the location away. In general, I'd hope that one could finish the game (without cheating) without having to locate obscure secret doors. It's more satisfying if a secret door is helpful but not essential. Larry Re: Operation Tantalus Author:Richard Drysdall <drysdall@waikato.ac.nz> Date:1996/01/31 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/31 Message-ID:<drysdall-3101962230390001@drysdall.phys.waikato.ac.nz> organization: University of Waikato references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz><4edu87$4ak8@auriga.unm.edu> <310CC108.24AE@cheme.washington.edu> reply-to: drysdall@waikato.ac.nz sender:drysdall@waikato.ac.nz In article <310CC108.24AE@cheme.washington.edu>, Larry Ricker <ricker@cheme.washington.edu> wrote: > C.L. Sturm wrote: > > > > I've been playing OT a bit. I've already had to cheat. On the level, > > Cyborg, I couldn't leave the level until all of the cyborgs were dead. > > That includes all of them in the two rooms, plus the two extras. > > > > There was most certainly not enough ammo to kill all of the cyborgs. > > > > Not even close. I personally don't want to spend half an hour holding > > down the space-bar key punching them to death. > > I didn't have any trouble killing them all, but it helped to have the > rocket launcher... (hidden in the first level). That way I could finish > off quite a few of them simultaneously. Gee, I just pressed the hidden switch in the wall... ;-) -- Richard Drysdall, University of Waikato, New Zealand. "I'm called a theoretical physicist because in practice I'm not." Information gathering organisations are hereby denied permission to use any personal information pertaining to myself (including my email address) in any commercial transaction. Re: Operation Tantalus Author:james harvey brewster <brew@unm.edu> Date:1996/01/30 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/30 Message-ID:<4eluu1$1ui9@enzu.unm.edu> organization:University of New Mexico, Albuquerque references:<3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz><4edu87$4ak8@auriga.unm.edu> In article <clsturm-2801962136470001@ts1-port-31.acs.ucalgary.ca>, C.L. Sturm <clsturm@acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote: >I've been playing OT a bit. I've already had to cheat. On the level, >Cyborg, I couldn't leave the level until all of the cyborgs were dead. >That includes all of them in the two rooms, plus the two extras. > >There was most certainly not enough ammo to kill all of the cyborgs. > >Not even close. I personally don't want to spend half an hour holding >down the space-bar key punching them to death. Well, I won't give it away but you don't need ammo to kill them. There are plenty of clues to indicate this. Most every terminal has a purpose whether it be a clue or mission info. >I'm on the next level after it, and I can't really find the point of >the level. I've searched just about everywhere, and I'm not sure >what is left. I'm not sure which level you are refering to, but again, the terminals usually are clear as to what your mission should be. Occasionally, missions span over several levels. The main overall mission in OT, is to find your way to Seths headquarters. To accomplish this, you may need to gather info spread out over several levels. >The creators of this game sure like to use hidden doorways. I >personally don't like running along walls trying to see if doors >are around that aren't shown. I don't know how many buildings >you've been in where doors are not obvious. The are no undocumented _essential_ secrets in OT. I learned my lesson in USS Raider (Remember where the ammo was layed out on the floor in the shape of an arrow) about this. There are however plenty of secrets. As I said earlier, this adventure is probably not for every Marathon player. Some are not interested in the adventure aspect provided by OT. >Oh well, I figure it's going in the trash pretty soon. Fair enough, thanks for giving it a chance. Jim Brewster Re: Operation Tantalus Author: BRENDAN BERVER <bberver@nmsu.edu> Date:1996/02/01 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/02/01 Message-ID:<4er8lr$dnk@bubba.NMSU.Edu> organization:New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz><4edu87$4ak8@auriga.unm.edu> C.L. Sturm (clsturm@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote: : The creators of this game sure like to use hidden doorways. I : personally don't like running along walls trying to see if doors : are around that aren't shown. I don't know how many buildings : you've been in where doors are not obvious. Hrm. I just started playing OT, but already I'm impressed. Jim and co. have done some interesting things. (I just love that new squeal some of the baddies make. *grin*) As for secret doors, I don't have a big problem with them. In fact, I like them. (I even liked the one in USS Rigor or whatever. I just wish I had noticed the arrow. *chuckle*) The new cyborgs add an interesting twist to it all. I haven't had much time to play with it, but already I can tell it will take me a while. (to fully explore it, if not to finish it.) Besides, any Marathon game that actually has me thinking about taking notes has got to be worth something... : Oh well, I figure it's going in the trash pretty soon. *shrug* To each his own, I suppose. I figure it'll be staying on my HD for a long time yet.... ________________________________________________________________ Brendan K. Berver | "She climbed backwards out her window .\ bberver@nmsu.edu | into outside over there." \/ Re: Operation Tantalus Author:Jason Carter <wcarter@mindspring.com> Date:1996/01/27 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/27 Message-ID:<4ec7mm$153c@stealth.mindspring.com> content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 organization:MindSpring Enterprises references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> <4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> x-mailer:Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; 68K) x-url: news:4e9cnc$s6o@celebrian.otago.ac.nz I have to say the Operation Tantalus is probably one of the best scenarios out there. It's more involved than DIABD, and I think the story is MUCH cooler. I love the cyborg theme, and the levels are beautiful, as well as deadly. Speaking of new scenarios, I'm a member of the MMMG, and all I can say is that the next release (GM2) is going to kick ass. You're not going to recognize this as Marathon. Be prepared........ -Jason Carter Re: Operation Tantalus Author:R. Reichle <rreichle@mo.net> Date:1996/01/26 Forum: comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/01/26 Message-ID:<rreichle-2601961705520001@pm1x16.dialip.mo.net> organization:-=MO.NET=- MVP-Net, Inc's Missouri Operations references: <3104CCDF.5EBE@cheme.washington.edu> I too have played Tantalus and it is by far better than anything Marathon-related I have played so far. It has just the right amount of new shapes, sounds, and physics changes, and they all work well within the levels. And it is HARD! In fact, it's just plain eerie when you know that only you and one other kickass cyborg are in the level, and he's out to get you. The plot is exceptional, except for the bad guy's name (Nefarius? I think they could have done better.) Otherwise, this is the best scenario I have played for either Marathon, Bungie-made or freeware. As for difficulty, I managed to beat the game, but I didn't get the best ending. It seems that most of the shortcuts are hidden pretty well. The non-linearity is cool. It says in the read me that levels are changed purposely once you return to them. And there are actually twists to the plot. There are even minor characters, the equivalent to Blake in M2 (except Richie's got one helluva modified assault rifle!). To anyone who's wondering if they should go through the download time, DO IT! It will soon be your only reason to play M1. -- Robert Reichle rreichle@mo.net Ballistic2@aol.com Re: Operation Tantalus T-shirts Author:Hamish Sinclair <Hamish.Sinclair@tcd.ie> Date:1996/02/03 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/02/03 Message-ID:<31134ADE.5DCF@tcd.ie> content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii mime-version: 1.0 organization:Trinity College Dublin reply-to: Hamish.Sinclair@tcd.ie sender: usenet@news.tcd.ie (TCD News System ) x-mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (Macintosh; I; PPC) Greetings. To the many hundreds of people who have enquired about the availability of Operation Tantalus T-shirts I'm afraid the answer is NO. Yours aye, Hamish Sinclair ;-) Operation Tantalus and the 7th Cavalry Author:Hamish Sinclair <Hamish.Sinclair@tcd.ie> Date:1996/02/13 Forum:alt.games.marathon Posted on:1996/02/13 Message-ID:<3120767D.153F@tcd.ie> content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 organization:Trinity College Dublin reply-to: Hamish.Sinclair@tcd.ie sender:usenet@news.tcd.ie (TCD News System ) x-mailer:Mozilla 2.0b6a (Macintosh; I; PPC) Stuck on Operation Tantalus? Can't seem to shake those Gideon blues? Those Mjolnir-Kodas cyborgs giving you a hard time? Can't find Seth? Where are THE PLANS? Who ya gonna call? The 7th Cavalry? No! Help for completing Operation Tantalus can be found on Jim and David's Marathon Map Page at http://www.unm.edu/~grok/maranet.html The hot line to the hints page for Operation Tantalus is http://www.unm.edu/~grok/mappage/hints.html The Operation Tantalus story is full of references to science fiction movies. Indeed you could say "They're Everywhere". If you spot one send it to David Dericotte <grok@unm.edu> and he'll add your name to the list at http://www.unm.edu/~grok/mappage/OTmarmov.html The person with the most discoveries will feature in our up and coming Marathon 2 extravaganza. Yes you could be a Bob ;-) Best wishes. Jim Brewster <brew@unm.edu> David Dericotte <grok@unm.edu> Hamish Sinclair <Hamish.Sinclair@tcd.ie> The Three We don't make maps, we make experiences... Operation Tantalus: Development Tales Author: james harvey brewster <brew@unm.edu> Date:1996/02/21 Forum:comp.sys.mac.games.action Posted on:1996/02/21 Message-ID:<4gg9ht$d30@indus.unm.edu> organization:University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Hi all, I was just updating the Operation Tantalus feedback page (http://www.unm.edu/~brew/feedback.html) and I came across an old message from Dave to Hamish that I thought you'd like. (Dave to Hamish) Despite that fact that Jim and I have played this map over and over and over (ad infinitum), we still are able to get enjoyment from the levels so I hope this is an indication that it will en-THRALL others as well (ref. to Gamesters =) ). In fact, Jim and I developed and cool evasive maneuver last night; let me paint the scene for you: Locale: Cyborg Rampancy Testing Facility, Outside Arena Armor Condition: Invincible At-ready Weapon: Missile Launcher Situation: Rampant Cyborgs to my front, right and left, closing in quickly (wall to my back). With cyborgs encircling me and all routes to the escape hatches thereby cut off, I did what I could. I pointed my back to to the onrushers, sped towards them (running backwards) and at the last possible second, fired my missle into the ground in reverse-grenade-hopping fashion only to see the rampant cyborgs retreat from below me. I land and spun 180 degrees and headed to safety, rampant cyborgs infuriated with my daring escape. I guess you had to be there to get the most out of it (or be a sleep deprived as Jim and I were when I pulled this stunt off). Anyhow, I was somewhat proud of the fact that I was able to surprise the hell out of Jim, who was rather smug in the fact that he had designed a level that was getting ready to choke the invader in cyborg carnage. You should have seen the look on his face when I whirled around and "hopped" over them all. It was just as spontaneous for me so we just looked at each other and started laughing our butts off (early morning delirium, again). Well, don't mean to bore you with the story but I had to tell it to someone. Thanks for listening. (Hamish's Reply) Far out... I hate that place ;-) I'll have to try it myself. IMHO the cyborgs are an excellent creation and worth developing further. The two in the Gadget factory give you the feeling of being stalked. I loved it. Stay tuned for more, Operation Tantalus: Development Tales Jim Brewster --- Tan-ta-lus 1: a legendary king of Lydia condemned to stand up to the chin in a pool of water in Hades and beneath fruit-laden boughs only to have the water or fruit recede at each attempt to drink or eat 2: a locked cellarette with contents visible but not obtainable without a key --- The Three We don't make maps...We make experiences. Operation Tantalus REALLY cool! Author:David Hafken <hafken@ritz.mordor.com> Date:1996/04/01 Forum:alt.games.marathon Posted on:1996/04/01 Message-ID:<Dp6qp4.490@ritz.mordor.com> organization:Mordor International I just started playing operation tantalus and must say it is really cool -- finally, something that is truly different than the original marathon. its plot kicks ass (i think much better than M2 or Devil's) and the non-linearity thing is awesome. my only gripe is that i can see myself getting frustrated by potentially ending up in infinite loops....it gets boring having to do the same parts of the same levels over and over.... is there any sort of help/spoiler guide for this scenerio to help those that get stuck in these loops? especially always getting sent back to GIDEON. well, EXCELLENT work guys, you should be working with bungi or something, i don't know how you stretched the marathon engine to it's absolute limits (in terms of creating a real plot and being able to jump in between levels with that plot progressing) but you have. dave ps i like most of the new sounds (especially the new door opeining/closing) but the machine gun fire is getting pretty annoying (too high pitched) -- is there any way to selectively replace that sound with the original? thanks...